
-------- TML Message #122 --------

Subject: Re: Computers in Traveller 
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 88 21:45:33 PST
From: ("Leonard Erickson... !tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard") leonard@bucket
Archive-Message-Number: 122


Regarding "fibre-optic" backup, I read that as yet another unintentional 
mis-use of terminology (how many of you remember the article in an early
JTAS that had "copper-based hemoglobin"?)

I merely assume that the backup is "really" a backup computer based on
optical circuitry rather than electronic. They're starting to build
such stuff now (at about RTL logic equivalent).

Or they might be using TIMMS (Thermally Integrated Micro Modules?). These
are basicly the *tube* equivalent of integrated circuits. They're made
of ceramics and high temperature metals. No filaments or "heaters". You
put this "block in an oven and heat to a few hundred degrees! (these 
were used for radiation hardened equipment in the '60s).

Neither of the above would pay much attention to radiation levels that
would kill the crew. BTW it isn't necessarily the EMP that kills semi-
conductor based equipment. Radaition does funny things to PN junctions.

As for the size/cost/etc of computers in Traveller, pay close attention
to just what their idea of a computer is. Even the "simple" programs are
more than I'd care to try on even a 68000 or 80386 machine. Navigate is
doing *real-time* multi-body orbit and trajectory calculations involving
object that are manuvering under power. That ain't simple! Not to the
accuracy you need to keep from hitting another ship while making your approach
to the Starport.

Size has been argued before. much out it may merely be the space required to
let you get at it. Figure out how much space a "normal" PC takes up if you
include the desk and chair...



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-------- TML Message #123 --------

Date: Thu, 25 Feb 88 07:24:03 PST
From: ihnp4!ihlpf!zonker@tektronix
Archive-Message-Number: 123


First as an historical aside.  At the time that Traveller was written about the
only computer I believe that Mark Miller had seen was an old Tandy with a
cassette tape drive (UGH).  It played a great dungeon game (which was
unwinable and I think Scott Renner wrote - he is occasionally seen on the
net out of UofI).  At any rate considering the inexperience of the developer
computers aren't bad in Traveller.  On the straight gaming side there was
also rules balancing to consider. 

My solutions to the computer problem were the following home rules:

Traveller Computers:

The current computers in traveller are rather over sized for what
they can do i.e. a computer today that can run only two programs
every ten minutes and can only store 4 more would, comfortably
fit inside a telephone, yet it takes one ton of space to do this
in Traveller.  With just the currently projected advances in
technology you will be able to compact computers even more. (Also
Traveller computers obviously have no concept of virtual storage,
concurrency, multiprogramming, or multiprocessing all of which add
up to allowing literally scores of programs to run at the same
time.  With these each program only needs a small portion of itself in
memory at any one time.  The number of programs running being
limited by the speed of switching programs, rate new pages are
needed, and secondary storage more than CPU memory size.)
Since the Traveller tech chart shows the level 1 computer as a
Tech Level 5 entity, we are going to assume that the chart on page
13, book two is the TL5 chart.  Because I find the CPU/storage
columns to be nonsense they will be combined into one column
(note that this eliminates the need to have bis models).  For each
odd TL above five the program capacity of the chart will be shift
down one rows i.e. model 2 program capacity will become model one
program capacity,  cost and space will be read as normal. 
On even TLs the cost can be cut by one third or the mass can be
halved.  Therefore the chart for TL11-12 is:
	model	price	mass	prog cap
	1	2	1	14
	2	9	2	27
	3	18	3	50
	4	30	4	70
	5	45	5	90
	6	55	5	110
	7	60	5	130
	Note that I decided to project the top of the chart at a constant
	20 programs.  I think for the time being we'll leave software as
	it is.  (I will accept comments and suggestions there though).

Any computer with a program capacity of 150 or greater can be
considered an artificial intelligence (AI cost is x3).  These
computers may replace their prog cap with skills at a ration of 1
skill for 15 programs (one skill must be the skill AI which
equates to a personality)(plus they will automatically have 1 skill at
ship maintenance and be able to function as a library).   AIs are
required to have a robot at their disposal and are considered to
have heat and vacuum sensors through out the ship (visual, hearing
and voice would be limited except by the presence of the robot,
maintenance senors would be placed where needed).  Ship specific
skills would be:  Predict, Gunnery (assumed equal to Gunner
Interact, Target, Launch, return fire, anti missile programs and a
Gunnery skill of 1), Select, Multi-Target, Maneuver/Evade, Jump
(includes Generate and Navigation programs), and Anti-Hijack.  All
these skills can be assumed to have the same effect as the best
equivalent book 2 page 12 software and may be chosen freely by
the player.  AI computers can also have any other skill (granted
many of them would be useless to the computer) available and can
be used to teach.  AI computers can not change skills once they
are chosen.  An AI computer (that is to say the ship) will not
necessarily do what it is ordered since it is a NPC (note ships are
considered to be phenomenally loyal to their owner (i.e. incapable
of treachery), but not without a sense of self preservation).  We
will deal with the problems this will entail, in the area of title
transfer, when we come to it.
	a. When starships are awarded to a player (when he musters
	out) a die is rolled and the TL of the computer is as
	follows 1 = TL9, 2,3,4 = TL11 5,6 = TL13.  Note: that you
	may buy a new higher TL computer to replace the one given.



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-------- TML Message #124 --------

From: (Adrian Hurt) mcvax!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian@uunet.uu.net
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 88 16:53:42 GMT
Subject: Trading routes
Archive-Message-Number: 124



>Are there any good methods for determining major trading routes,
>other than just connecting all A and B starports?  I seem to
>remember that the rules are pretty vague about this.  
>Suggestions?

That depends on which trading rules you are playing by. If you use "Merchant
Prince", the only decent trade routes are those with lots of A-class starports,
on Hi population planets, with roughly the same tech level. Try a tour of the
Vegan Autonomous district, in Solomani Rim sector. I have a ship doing so right
now, and it's about to emerge a multi-millionaire!

If you use the speculative rules in Book 2, you get much more satisfactory
conclusions. The obvious trade route is between Agricultural and Industrial
worlds, and this is rewarded in the Book 2 system. The only problem is, the
availability of cargoes is too random. You are quite likely to go to the
Agricultural world, only to find that the only cargo available is Machinery, or
something equally useless.

If you use the regular cargo and passenger tables from Book 2 or Merchant Prince
then again, stick to high population worlds. Starport class doesn't feature
here, but tech level may (I disregard TL modifiers for these charts, otherwise
I can never visit lower tech agro worlds).

Now for another question. Book 2 mentions mail briefly. Under "Revenues", it
says "Mail  Cr25000 (if fitted). How does an honest merchant get mail fitted?

 
"Keyboard? Tis quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

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-------- TML Message #125 --------

From: (Fake it 'till you make it!) baranski%yoda.DEC@decwrl.dec.com
Date: 28 Feb 88 16:40
Subject: Computers
Archive-Message-Number: 125


I believe that Traveller computers are not all that far off base.  I use the
following rationaliztions to make sense of the following rules, and negate the
objections to the rules:

Computers too big:  When you consider the cumputer as the major or entire
control system of the ship, spread throughout the ship, with only the
traditional computer components: CPU, Memory, Console, storage, printout, at
the bridge, the size of compters makes more sense.  The size of the fiber optic
computers I rationalize as the "fiber optic" setup being as it states, a *"back
up"*, in addition to the normal computer.  It is stupid, if there are no
drawbacks, to use the FO only as backup, but I believe this is a rule whose
purpose is to make FOC special items.

Computers run too few programs:  These programs are massive **realtime** sensor
and simulation programs.  You are comparing these to batch or timesharing
programs.   You can only get a given number of MIPS out of a box, no matter how
you slice it.

Jim Baranski DEC Tewksbury MA

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-------- TML Message #126 --------

Subject: TML Software Bug again
Date: 25 Mar 88 19:01:20 PST (Fri)
From: jamesp
Archive-Message-Number: 126



Ooops! My message filter was broken last month, so messages sent to the
traveller mailing list got eaten (programmer error, again...  I really
must be more careful).  Somebody sent a message on the 3rd and somebody
else on the 8th of March, and they both failed.  I think one of them was
even mine!

Hopefully it is fixed now (if you get this message, it really is fixed).

Sorry,
James

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-------- TML Message #127 --------

Date: Tue, 5 Apr 88 12:15:58 HST
From: pro-pac.CTS.COM!tsouth@ihnp4 (Todd South)
Subject: Play By Mail or Not.
Archive-Message-Number: 127


Sometime back, I seem to remember that someone mentioned they were either
starting, or thinking of starting, a play-by-mail traveller scenario.
Well, if anyone is, I sure would like to hear more on the subject!

Todd South

 :-----------------------------------------------------------------------:
 | Todd South : Ewa Beach, HI ||| Pacific Proline: (808) 499-2831 2400bd |
 | Uucp: {nosc, ihnp4, cacilj, sdcsvax, hplabs!hp-sdd, sun!ihnp4}  nnnn  |
 |                 ...!crash!pnet01!pro-simasd!pro-pac!tsouth      HHHH n|
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 | INET: tsouth@pro-pac.CTS.COM                             Hi Ma! \   / |
 :-----------------------------------------------------------------------:

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-------- TML Message #128 --------

Date: Thu, 7 Apr 88 21:05 PST
From: ("Scott, part time fuzzy") SELLSWORTH%HMCVAX.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject: Megatraveller
Archive-Message-Number: 128


  Hello all.  I hope this is not a repeat, but I finally got MT, and I wanted
to compare notes.

  General system:looks cleaned up to a great degree.  As the recent scuffle of
jack of all trades shows, they are not completely clear, but they seem to be
better than all of the stuff I used formerly.

Now for the caveats:
  Did anyone proofread this puppy?  It seems like an inordinate number of
tables and charts are just plain wrong.  First example:

  Merchant prince character generation:I was unable to find the specialty
schools referred to in the rules.  I found them in my merchant rince rulebook,
and they worked, but this is a disturbing table to be missing.

  Second BIG feature:hit charts for beam weapons.  I think they flipped the
numbers on most of the table.  WHY is it harder to hit with a factor 9 beam
than a factor 1 beam?  Or have I got this reversed...

  Second problem:why would one ever want to buy fusion guns over plasma guns?
 They cost more, use more power, and take more guns to give the same factor at
a given tech level.  Am I missing something, like a plus one or two on the
damage tables?

  What are the special effects, if any, of antimatter missles?

  How does one use a white globe?

Did they flip the signs on the reulsor table against missles?

   A question:  Should not a higher tech level be able to produce smaller
drives?  I wonder why a tech 15 jump or manuver unit takes up the same space
and power as a tech 11, or a tech 21 setup.  This seems odd...


  Big caveats for the moment...  As I keep looking and using, I will see what
else I can come up with.  Any help on calling these would be appreciated.  In
geberal, it looks like a clean system, but who can tell.


                                         Scott

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-------- TML Message #129 --------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 88 20:25:42 PDT
From: (James Chou) c60b-gk@buddy.berkeley.edu
Archive-Message-Number: 129



>From: ("Scott, part time fuzzy") tektronix!cunyvm.cuny.edu!HMCVAX.BITNET!SELLSWORTH@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
>Subject: Megatraveller

>  General system:looks cleaned up to a great degree.  As the recent scuffle of
>jack of all trades shows, they are not completely clear, but they seem to be
>better than all of the stuff I used formerly.
Still too much old stuff.  Yes, they are better than the old stuff,
but they are still worse than almost everyone elses.  I personally
used GURPS rules instead of MT's.

>Now for the caveats:
>  Did anyone proofread this puppy?  It seems like an inordinate number of
>tables and charts are just plain wrong.  First example:
That's my impression too.  Too much stuff has been left out and omitted.

>  Second BIG feature:hit charts for beam weapons.  I think they flipped the
>numbers on most of the table.  WHY is it harder to hit with a factor 9 beam
>than a factor 1 beam?  Or have I got this reversed...
>
>  Second problem:why would one ever want to buy fusion guns over plasma guns?
> They cost more, use more power, and take more guns to give the same factor at
>a given tech level.  Am I missing something, like a plus one or two on the
>damage tables?
   I think that the beam weapon chart is a typo.
   I believe fusion gun have some pluses to do damage.

>  What are the special effects, if any, of antimatter missles?
   Some people say that it's just like nuclear missle but cannot be block
out except by proton screen.  I don't believe that.  The cost and the
fact that a special screen has been designed for it's use indicates 
that it's much more potent than that.  Remember, fission, or even fusion,
comsumes a very very small portion of matter.  With antimatter, almost
all matters are converted into energy.

>  How does one use a white globe?
   It is supposed to be just like the black globe except it does not
impede anything from coming out.  I don't think it's resonable.  
a thing cannot absorb and giving off energy at same time.
I would treat it as a force shield and requires HEFTY amount of
power to operate.  Of course, the A/M powerplants provide the extra
power.

>Did they flip the signs on the reulsor table against missles?
   I guess so.

>   A question:  Should not a higher tech level be able to produce smaller
>drives?  I wonder why a tech 15 jump or manuver unit takes up the same space
>and power as a tech 11, or a tech 21 setup.  This seems odd...
   I thought it's unreasonable too.  
   Another thing about the table.. I would prefer them to give out formulas
instead of tables.  Some tables are just a waste of space.  

The rule for shipbuilding is decent, but it does take a lot of work.
One thing I noticed is that some new factors are useless.
Like the hull cripples/ destroyed points.  No where in the rule
says anything about it.  

The combat is almost unchanged from High Guard.  I think it's time for
something new.  One thing I don't  like is the factors.  I prefer 
a more linear system of factors.  How do you know just how powerful
is a factor T meson gun is comparing to a factor 4 laser?  The differece
may be thousands of times... I think the factor system should be dropped

The Imperial Encyclopaedia is especially bad.  It is useless.  It does not
give enough information about the game world, and those information it
does give are too fragmentory and incoherent to use.  A lot of stuffs
are just lifted from the ancient Traveller.  It's time for something newer.
Traveller 2300 is much more coherent, and playable, than the much more
expansive MT.  

I am very disappointed in this. The Travaller game world is THE best
in the SF genre, yet GDW produce this junk for all its potencial. 
MT is fit only as a reference book- and not very good one at that.
Over all, I am very disappointed.

>                                         Scott


James Chou




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-------- TML Message #130 --------

Date: Tue, 3 May 88 13:50:30 PDT
From: (Gary Palmer) palmer%hbvb.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: A Source
Archive-Message-Number: 130


I was in the bay area (San Francisco for you non locals) a couple
weekends ago and next door to my hotel was a game store that impressed
me.  They had almost all the Traveller supplements along with most of
the megatrav stuff.  There was even a used book rack with used trav
books.  Along with that they had an outstanding assortment of other
role playing games.  There were also alot of games I had never heard
of. 

Anyway, this is not so much a plug as a referral source for any of you
who can't find something, out-of-print or whatever reason.  They said
they would do a mail order.  The store is: 

                        Gamescape
                        333 Divisadero St.
                        S.F. CA, 94117
                        Near Haight St. or near Fell St. off 101
                        (415) 621-GAME

Gary Palmer              SPAN:     palmer@hbva
(213) 781-8644           INTERNET: palmer%hbva.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov
      CSNET:    palmer%hbva.span%vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov@csnet-relay.CSNET

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-------- TML Message #131 --------

Date: Mon, 2 May 88 19:14:19 EDT
From: (Tim Thomas) tim@gondor.cs.psu.edu
Subject: test and questions....
Archive-Message-Number: 131


This is a test to see if I can post to the list.

I also have several questions....

1) How do robots gain skill levels (learn)
2) Can someone post or e-mail the book 6 scouts advanced system errata....

thanks in advance.....
- ------
tim

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-------- TML Message #132 --------

From: (Adrian Hurt) mcvax!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian@uunet.uu.net
Date: Wed, 4 May 88 16:51:39 BST
Subject: Sources
Archive-Message-Number: 132



  >I was in the bay area (San Francisco for you non locals) a couple
  >weekends ago and next door to my hotel was a game store that impressed
  >me.  They had almost all the Traveller supplements along with most of
  >the megatrav stuff.  There was even a used book rack with used trav
  >books.
  
  Do they do miniatures? Specifically, do they sell 15mm Zhodani miniatures?
  Do they allow overseas mail order (e.g. by Visa)?
  
   "Keyboard? Tis quaint!" - M. Scott
  
   Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
   UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

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-------- TML Message #133 --------

Date: Thu, 5 May 88 09:01:56 PDT
From: (Gary Palmer) palmer%hbvb.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: About the Gamescape source
Archive-Message-Number: 133


Yes they have a large (although not extensive) collection of 
miniatures.  I am in L.A. and can't easily check out the store as 
it's not local.  I do not know if they would do an overseas ship, but 
I suggest you write or call them if you have specific questions.  

They did NOT have a catalog when I was there, but the salesperson said 
they were considering it.  I guess the rub here is that you need a 
pretty good idea of what you want in order to but it there.

Sorry this doesn't help much.

Gary Palmer
SPAN:     palmer@hbva
INTERNET: palmer%hbva.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov

Ask not for the stars, for that may be all you get!

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-------- TML Message #134 --------

Date: Thu, 5 May 88 11:12:35 PDT
From: (Josh Levy) jlevy@teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
Subject: Looking for homebrew PC generation systems
Archive-Message-Number: 134


(You are in a twisty maze of line eater food, all different...)	

Has anyone tried to improve Traveller's (or MegaTraveller's) character
generation system?  I do not like Traveller's system and think MegaTraveller's
system is poor also.  Since I think the rest of the game is pretty good, 

I am thinking about ripping out the official character generation
system and replacing it.  The new generation system would create characters
similar to the old one, so no other rules would need to be changed.
	
Has anyone tried this before?  Has anyone thought about this?  If so,
please email me any ideas you have.  If I ever create anything interesting,
I'll post it....
	
Josh
	
P.S. I have the character generation system posted by "redden@trwrb" in Jan.
	
Name:         Joshua Levy  (415) 424-0500x357
Disclaimer:   Teknowledge can plausibly deny everything.
Pithy Quote:  "Don't feed the lawyers raw meat"  --Bloom County
jlevy@teknowledge-vaxc.arpa or 
{uunet|sun|ucbvax|decwrl}!jlevy%teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
	

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-------- TML Message #135 --------

Subject: Traveller Trading (from rec.games.frp)
Date: 13 May 88 11:25:02 PDT (Fri)
From: jamesp
Archive-Message-Number: 135



Here's an article asking a question about Merchant Prince Trade I picked
up on rec.games.frp, and I thought I'd forward it to the Traveller
Mailing List to see if anyone could help this guy out.  A partial reply
to his question also appeared in rec.games.frp, and that message is
included too.

I can't give my two cents since I left my MegaTraveller set at home, but
personally I think the Trade system has major problems.  Traders that
frequent a world should be able to bid on an win contracts for Cargo
delivery, learn more about places to find best quality items or lowest
prices, develop a reputation for business, or if they are a subsidized
merchant probably have a central cargo clearinghouse membership for
which their subsidizing government can pay a fee, etc.  Also the
inability for low tech agro worlds to economically sell agro goods to
high tech industrial worlds is a major stumbling block, as is the fixed
amount of available cargo and passengers (among many others).  That's
enough flaming editorial for now.

James

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Article: 4264 of rec.games.frp
Path: zeus!tektronix!uunet!husc6!think!ames!ncar!hao.ucar.edu!msnow
From: msnow@hao.ucar.edu (Martin Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Traveller Trading
Keywords: Major Minor Incidental
Message-ID: <166@ncar.ucar.edu>
Date: 2 May 88 04:19:25 GMT
Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu
Reply-To: msnow@hao.ucar.edu (Martin Snow)
Organization: High Altitude Obs./NCAR, Boulder, CO
Lines: 16

I have a question about Traveller (Merchant Prince).

To determine how much cargo is available for a Free Trader 
to pick up, you are supposed to roll on a table to 
determine the amount of 'Major' 'Minor' and 'Incidental'
cargo available.

My question is:  What is the difference?  Does Major cargo
come in 10 ton units or something?  If not, there could never
be more than say 20-30 tons of cargo available at even the
most populated worlds.  Doesnt fill up much of the 80+ tons
of cargo space in a standard Free Trader.  Whats the deal?

Please respond by e-mail.  I never get any.

Martin

- ------- Message 2

Article: 4316 of rec.games.frp
Path: zeus!tektronix!uunet!cbmvax!mikec
From: mikec@cbmvax.UUCP (Mike Colligon QA)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Traveller Trading
Keywords: Major Minor Incidental
Message-ID: <3715@cbmvax.UUCP>
Date: 3 May 88 13:53:38 GMT
References: <166@ncar.ucar.edu>
Reply-To: mikec@cbmvax.UUCP (Mike Colligon QA)
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 32

In article <166@ncar.ucar.edu> msnow@hao.ucar.edu (Martin Snow) writes:
>I have a question about Traveller (Merchant Prince).
>
>To determine how much cargo is available for a Free Trader 
>to pick up, you are supposed to roll on a table to 
>determine the amount of 'Major' 'Minor' and 'Incidental'
>cargo available.
>
>My question is:  What is the difference?  Does Major cargo
>come in 10 ton units or something?  If not, there could never
>be more than say 20-30 tons of cargo available at even the
>most populated worlds.  Doesnt fill up much of the 80+ tons
>of cargo space in a standard Free Trader.  Whats the deal?
>
>Please respond by e-mail.  I never get any.
>
>Martin


In MegaTraveller, major is 1d+10, minor is 1d+5, and incidental is 1d.  You can 
also get a number of each size cargos depending on your rolls of availability.
The numbers generated are tons of cargo.


- - -- 
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|  Michael Colligon                             Quality Assurance Department  |
|  uucp: {ihnp4|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!mikec   Commodore Business Machines   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "I say we take off; nuke the site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure." |
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-------- TML Message #136 --------

Date: Fri, 13 May 88 13:35:58-1000
From: (Glenn Fernandez) glenn@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Subject: PBM
Archive-Message-Number: 136


What ever happened to the PBEM game that was started a while back?


Glenn Fernandez
University of Hawaii
Computing Center
Have world, will populate!


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-------- TML Message #137 --------

Date: Wed, 25 May 88 00:00:34 cst
From: ihnp4!sask!johann@tektronix (Mr. J)
Subject: MegaTraveller and Other Stuff
Archive-Message-Number: 137


HI Everyone;

    Does anyone have any errata for Megatraveller? I have a friend who 
purchased it but we have yet to see anything about corrections from GDW.
I was thinking possibly the next issue of Challenge but it take a while for
them to get up north here. 

    We haven't tried MegaT yet but it looks as if it will be interesting 8-)

    Also does anyone have any further rules for doing trade. Ideally, 
trade should be similar to what happens at a shipyard. Does anyone know if
free trading (similar to what we have in Traveller) is allowed in the world
today? I would like to get more information and maybe start working on a 
better system of trade between planets. 

    This should be enough. Good Travelling!

James Johannesson                          BITNET: johannesson@sask
Consultant                                 UUCP:   ihnp4!sask!johann
Computing Services                         INTERNET: johannesson@sask.usask.ca
Univ. of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan CAN
S7N-0W0

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-------- TML Message #138 --------

Date: Sun, 5 Jun 88 04:36:36 +0200
From: uunet!mcvax!diku.dk!rancke@tektronix (Hans Rancke-Madsen.)
Subject: Can this universe be saved?
Archive-Message-Number: 138


Long time ago when GDW started publishing their support material
for Traveller, it was a rather interesting world they portrayed.
The Spinward Marches was a rough and ready frontier, where a man
had to rely on himself. Sure, there were a few high-population
worlds where you could relax and have city-type adventures, but in
the low-pop. systems  -  The Outback, as it were  -  you were on
your own; the navy had a few Kinunir and Gazelle class starships,
but mostly you had only your own wit and skills to pit againt evil
pirates and whatnot. There were a lot of cracks for these pirates
and other malcontents to hide in, and a looseness about the whole
setup that allowed PCs plenty of scope to right (or commit) wrongs,
explore near-empty star systems and generally have a good time.

Then "Azhanti High Lightning" and later "Fighting Ships" told us
about the juggernauts of the Imperial fleet: 60.000 T ships by
the gross, 100 and 200.000 T ships by (at least) the dozen. Why,
then, don't they buy one less dreadnaught and enough Kinunirs
to put a couple in each starsystem, thus ending piracy forever?
Later "Trillion Credit Squadron" told about how to finance the
fleet and "Fifth Frontier War" showed more than a 100 trillion
credit squadrons in the sector (propably many more, since the
map only shows some of the sector, and some ships presumably
are held back to protect the rimward part of it). And on top of
this comes the civillian shipping. With the assumption that
goods must be moved around to pay for all theese warships, I
once calculated the trade tonnage in Glisten subsector to
48 *million* tons! And Glisten is a comparativly low-population
subsector...

It's those high-population worlds that does it. Look at Mora, a
world with 10 billion people. According to "Trillion..." each
contributes Cr 500 per year to the naval budget. That's Cr
5.000.000.000.000 (five *trillions*). Naval investments are
equal to 10 times the yearly budget; so Mora alone can finance
*fifty* squadrons. Of course, some of that will have to be used
on local planetary defenses. Anybody want to calculate the
number of meson cannons you can buy for a third of fifty
trillion credit?

And dare I mention that there are three more high-population worlds
with a total population of thirty billion in Mora subsector ?

If we use the rules in "Striker" we get a slightly smaller figure:
a yearly budget of "only" 3,08 trillion Cr. Of this, a mere 30% goes
to the Imperium (and how many meson guns can Mora get for the
remaining 70%?), giving us a paltry 9 trillion credit squadrons
with a little bit left over. But this is only after a long
period of peace, where the military budget is 1% of the gross
national product. In times of war that figure can be raised to
15 times that or 45+ squadrons.

Can this universe be saved?

I have some requirements of my Traveller campaign. Mostly they
are concerned with keeping things reasonably close to the
original concepts:

1) Starships are expensive, but not totally beyond the means of
   a determined, adventuresome and lucky group.

2) Some worlds has a reasonably high volume of traffic; the navy
   are present here and piracy, if not entirely impossible,
   depends on stealth and audacity, rather than brute force. But
   others are small out-of-the-way frontier planets where anything
   can happen  -  and usually does (da-da-da-DAH!)

3) The size of and demands on the navy makes it impractical to
   maintain navy ships in the small star-systems. The navy con-
   centrates on the important worlds and make do with irregular
   patrol sweeps at the others.

I have some ideas for patches, but I would like to hear your
reactions before I say more. Am I talking sense? Or through my
hat? Do you have any ideas or suggestions?

   Hans Rancke, University of Copenhagen
          ..mcvax!diku!rancke

- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

- - I hate it when people call me paranoid.
  It makes me feel persecuted.

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-------- TML Message #139 --------

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 88 14:39:33 EDT
From: (Andrew Christopher Bell) acb@cs.duke.edu
Archive-Message-Number: 139


Subject: Re: "Can this univers be saved?"

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
>Then "Azhanti High Lightning" and later "Fighting Ships" told us
>about the juggernauts of the Imperial fleet: 60.000 T ships by
>the gross, 100 and 200.000 T ships by (at least) the dozen. Why,
>then, don't they buy one less dreadnaught and enough Kinunirs
>to put a couple in each starsystem, thus ending piracy forever?

>It's those high-population worlds that does it. Look at Mora, a
>world with 10 billion people. According to "Trillion..." each
>contributes Cr 500 per year to the naval budget. That's Cr
>5.000.000.000.000 (five *trillions*). Naval investments are
>equal to 10 times the yearly budget; so Mora alone can finance
>*fifty* squadrons. Of course, some of that will have to be used
>on local planetary defenses. Anybody want to calculate the
>number of meson cannons you can buy for a third of fifty
>trillion credit?


Without the rules and a calculator,  I'm not sure if the money you're talking
is several orders of magnitude higher than it "should be."  If it isn't, don't
forget that the tax money has to pay for:

Salaries
Maintenance
Command facilities and employees
Spare parts
Fuel
Military pensions
Military hospitals
Research
Recruitment
"ROTC" programs
(lots of other things)

and not just for equipment.  That 10x annual figure in equipment value seems
excessive.

Throw in some graft,  political lobbying costs,  advertising,  losses to
pirates,  and the like,  and hopefully you can justify significantly lower
values of ships actually in service.

    -Andrew Bell

acb@duke.cs.duke.edu

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